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November 04, 2009

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Nick

Interesting analysis.

Do you think that popular loss in Maine and before in California, could help arguments in the Perry case or in other cases that sexual orientation should be a suspect or quasi suspect class, because loss in those states show that gays and lesbians are a politically powerless minority?

Theresa

The "inoculation" is an intriguing idea. I hated it on first hearing, but it might be the lesser evil. Yes, it would be colluding in the stigmatization of same-sex marriage, but it would block the anti-marriage side's (apparently) strongest argument. And after SSM is law for a few years the opt-out will probably start to look ridiculous.

Nan Hunter

To Nick -

I agree that both the number of states where marriage for gay couples has been barred by popular vote and the contrast to the lack of a comparable degree of disempowerment for any other minority should help with that argument.

Arvish

"But for a huge number of other Americans (at least if they are over 35), marriage really is different. Really different. Really. Maybe our team should consider ways to acknowledge that feeling without endorsing it."

I could not agree more with this statement. As a heterosexual guy who considers his parents (in their late 50's and early 60's) "open-minded," I was aghast when I find out several years ago how much of an anti-gay their values are. I say this because my parents spent a dozen years in Europe and have always steered away from religion and even to the point of being slightly anti-religion (they are agnostic by the way). So when I found out they had voted for a ban on gay marriage in our state, I was totally floored. My mother being a hair stylist even once divulged to me that she would not accept a lesbian client (argh!) even though several of his colleague are "flaming" homosexuals -- oh the irony. Strangely, we living in a very conservative state and many of the local clients usually exhibit an anti-gay rhetorics but to everyone's surprise, they "adore" these gay hair dressers or even others working in various industries; I'm talking about the church going arrant Christians.

I have tried to have a conversation with my folks regarding gays and stunningly, I always find their reasoning extremely one dimensional and sophomoric. It usually starts with wisdom of repugnance fallacy and veers off to puerile rejection of such sexual orientation. Many times I have locked them to the corner in the discourse where it left them no other rational getaway other than to confess to their mistake but for some egotistical reason, they just discard the logical argument from the base. However, over the time, as I stab their false perceptions, I have come to the realization that they are gradually but surely making progress. At least they no longer use the "disgusting" hook as a narrative to dismiss gays and now moving on with a more philosophical reasoning which I gleefully wait to dismantle point by point.

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